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Saturday, March 3

  1. page Wolff-Michael Roth edited ... Since human essence is societal relations then you can't reduce behaviour to the individual U…
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    Since human essence is societal relations then you can't reduce behaviour to the individual
    Unit Analysis
    Comment BK: Given that in Vygotsky the Unit of Analysis is not the individual then that goes a very long way to diminishing the importance of the individual
    What is thinking? Vygotsky resists the separation of Thinking from Being. Thinking is a mode of acting in the world in the service of a human individual while acting in the world. It is NOT an autonomous stream of thoughts.

    In Spinoza's philosophy the whole is more than the sum of the parts. Theorising begins with the whole, not the parts.
    Vygotsky:
    "a psychology that decomposes verbal thinking into its elements in an attempt to explain its characteristics will search in vain for the unity that is characteristic of the whole. When the whole is analysed into its elements, these characteristics evaporate because 'the internal relationships of the unified whole are replaced with external mechanical relationships between 2 heterogenoous processes'
    To understand the parts begin with the whole.
    Comment BK: NB. It doesn't follow that there is no place for decomposition, eg. phonics in learning to decode. But it does follow that there is a downside, you will miss out on holistic insights, if you ONLY focus on phonics

    What other philosophies do is separate body and mind and then invent a way to put them back together
    Descartes: pineal gland
    Hegel: sublation (which is?)
    modern: tools and signs as mediators
    Vygotsky opposed to researchers splitting sound (sensible) from signification (supersensible)
    Roth seems to argue that there was an evolution in Vygotsky's thinking from the whole is the sound-word (not the meaning of a word, that is suprasensible) to sense.
    What is sense? It has visible and invisible aspects. Movement is part of the visible aspect. There is an inner sense which expresses the person's attitude to the goal, internal struggle, hesitation, motivation, hot temper, weakness, exaggeration, attainment for show. The movement may be in excess or less than what is necessary to achieve the goal.
    Comment BK: I don't think he explains sense adequately

    Comment BK: This is the clearest argument yet about why whole language advocates are against teaching stand alone phonics. Decomposition destroys the sensual activity of the whole.
    Dialectics
    Idealists make two mistakes:
    1) Concepts over-ride practice
    2) Blind to historical nature of concepts
    Laws of dialectics, from Engels, and how Vygotsky interpreted them
    a) law of transformation of quantity into quality. Vygotsky called these neoformations
    b) law of interpenetration of opposites. Vygotsky followed Spinoza that mind and body are one substance which has a mind attribute and a body attribute
    c) law of the negation of the negation. (?)
    Research then and now makes the error of imposing concepts and principles from the outside. Method is decided in advance and concepts are imposed on whatever researchers are looking for. Methods and concepts should arise through a thorough investigation of the phenomena themselves, preconceived ideas and models. Data should create the theory, not the inverse.
    Comment BK: Doesn't Roth do the same thing in the next section by proclaiming ethnomethodology as best?
    You have to question your most cherished and your unconscious concepts
    Vygotsky method: start with the most general "cell form" of the phenomenon and develop from there

    On Methods for a 'Concrete' 'Human' Psychology of Mathematics
    Reference:
    ...
    Bateson reference is missing from Roth's book (p.5)
    Paul Ricoeur Time and Narrative
    Engels
    Bourdieu. The Paris Workshop

    Ch 2 The Thinking Body
    Ch 3 The Mathematics of Mathematics
    (view changes)
    1:18 am

Saturday, February 24

  1. page Wolff-Michael Roth edited ... Praxis: the actual, sensual labour through which things get done Praxis: the full vitality of…
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    Praxis: the actual, sensual labour through which things get done
    Praxis: the full vitality of life: needs, interests, incentives and tendencies
    ...
    (1st thesis onFeuerbach):on Feuerbach): "The chief
    ...
    not subjectively"
    Concrete human psychology is concerned with how real living people, in the here and now of their concrete lives, make, and are made by, the everyday world they inhabit; concrete human psychology attempts to understand how people succeed in doing what they do without having a conception or representation thereof in their minds. Thus if we see a red light, we stop at the intersection. We do not see the light, interpret it, and then direct the relevant organ to push of pull the brakes.
    Comment BK: my emphasis about the red light, since I find this interpretation remarkable
    Marx: "it is not consciousness that determines life, but life that determines consciousness"
    novel, unexpected things happen
    what people actually do can be dramatic
    when we do maths publicly, the maths is out there in the open and we do not have to get it into the head
    the unfolding drama of social life explains consciousness
    Comment BK: There is such a thing as internal knowledge construction. Why can't we have both: public maths and changes inside the head?
    Idealism searches for categories and concepts and then fits events to those categories / concepts. Real life drama is degraded in texts.
    A focus on meaning leads to the primacy of mind (Politzer). Marxist materialism focuses on real societal relations.
    Marx: once material and mental labour are separated; "from this moment onwards consciousness can really flatter itself that it is something other than consciousness of existing practice, that it really represents something without representing something real"
    Paul Ricoeur footnote, p. 22:
    mimesis1: we make and observe an order while participating in social life
    mimesis2: social life is transposed into the world of text
    mimesis3: the world of text is transposed back into social life as part of the application of research results
    In Structural theory entities remain stable. In real life things keep changing and moving.
    Since human essence is societal relations then you can't reduce behaviour to the individual

    Unit Analysis
    In Spinoza's philosophy the whole is more than the sum of the parts. Theorising begins with the whole, not the parts.
    Vygotsky:
    "a psychology that decomposes verbal thinking into its elements in an attempt to explain its characteristics will search in vain for the unity that is characteristic of the whole. When the whole is analysed into its elements, these characteristics evaporate because 'the internal relationships of the unified whole are replaced with external mechanical relationships between 2 heterogenoous processes'
    What other philosophies do is separate body and mind and then invent a way to put them back together
    Descartes: pineal gland
    Hegel: sublation
    modern: tools and signs as mediators
    Vygotsky opposed to researchers splitting sound (sensible) from signification (supersensible)
    Comment BK: This is the clearest argument yet about why whole language advocates are against teaching stand alone phonics. Decomposition destroys the sensual activity of the whole.

    Dialectics
    On Methods for a 'Concrete' 'Human' Psychology of Mathematics
    ...
    Georges Politzer Critique of the Foundations of Psychology (1928)
    Bateson reference is missing from Roth's book (p.5)
    Paul Ricoeur Time and Narrative
    Ch 2 The Thinking Body
    Ch 3 The Mathematics of Mathematics
    (view changes)
    2:53 am
  2. page Wolff-Michael Roth edited ... The thinking body has a practical sense, responding quickly in the heat of the situation, with…
    ...
    The thinking body has a practical sense, responding quickly in the heat of the situation, without having to stop and reflect. This is because it has been shaped by the world.
    From Vygotsky's Readings of Spinoza
    ...
    unity and failedfail to establish
    Speech having both a material (phonetic) and ideal (semantic) dimension is the key to the psychophysical (mind-body) problem. We can make an analogy between speech with its sensible-supersensible components and the commodity as analysed by Marx with its sensible exchange value and supersensible use value.
    Vygotsky: "the curse of matter on pure consciousness is moving layers of air, ie. intercourse with the aid of language, rather than a connection to the brain!"
    ...
    itself in speaking.Speechspeaking. Speech is material,
    Vygotsky and the Feuerbach-Marx Connection
    Spinoza: thoughtThought is an
    Marx: Thought, consciousness is a societal product
    In an evolutionary sense deeds precede words
    ...
    (developed wrt to mathematics in Ch 9)
    Drama is neither internal or external, it always has a front and back stage and neither can be understood without the other
    On Method
    Covers primacy of practice, unit analysis, dialectics and methods for a concrete, human psychology of mathematics
    Primacy of Praxis
    Praxis is the starting point, not the object or intuition
    Praxis: the actual, sensual labour through which things get done
    Praxis: the full vitality of life: needs, interests, incentives and tendencies
    Marx (1st thesis onFeuerbach): "The chief defect of all hitherto existing materialism -- that of Feuerbach included -- is that the thing [Gegenstand ], reality, sensuousness, is conceived only in the form of the object [Objekt ] or of intuition [Anschauung ],* but not as human sensuous activity, practice, not subjectively"
    Unit Analysis
    Dialectics
    On Methods for a 'Concrete' 'Human' Psychology of Mathematics

    Reference:
    Benedict de Spinoza, The Ethics
    ...
    Ch 3 The Mathematics of Mathematics
    Ch 4 Sociogenesis
    Ch5
    Ch 5 Intra-Intersubjective Field
    Speaker 1 and speaker 2 are having a conversation
    ...
    Other theories:
    Constructivist: discussed above
    ...
    is considered informationalinformationally closed
    Behaviourist: the sign is not a mediating link in the behaviourist S-R model (Mikhailov reference, The "Other Within", not clear to me)
    Historical-Philosophical Considerations
    (view changes)
    1:28 am

Friday, February 9

  1. page Wolff-Michael Roth edited ... 3 The Mathematics of Mathematics 4 Sociogenesis 5 [[Wolff-Michael+Roth#Ch5|Intra-Intersubje…
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    3 The Mathematics of Mathematics
    4 Sociogenesis
    5 [[Wolff-Michael+Roth#Ch5|Intra-Intersubjective Field]]Intra-Intersubjective Field
    6 Perezivanie - Experience
    7 Affect and Emotion
    (view changes)
    12:30 am
  2. page Wolff-Michael Roth edited ... 3 The Mathematics of Mathematics 4 Sociogenesis 5 [[#5|Intra-Intersubjective [[Wolff-Micha…
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    3 The Mathematics of Mathematics
    4 Sociogenesis
    5 [[#5|Intra-Intersubjective[[Wolff-Michael+Roth#Ch5|Intra-Intersubjective Field]]
    6 Perezivanie - Experience
    7 Affect and Emotion
    (view changes)
    12:12 am
  3. page Wolff-Michael Roth edited ... 3 The Mathematics of Mathematics 4 Sociogenesis 5 Intra-Intersubjective Field [[#5|Intra-I…
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    3 The Mathematics of Mathematics
    4 Sociogenesis
    5 Intra-Intersubjective Field[[#5|Intra-Intersubjective Field]]
    6 Perezivanie - Experience
    7 Affect and Emotion
    ...
    Ch 3 The Mathematics of Mathematics
    Ch 4 Sociogenesis
    Ch5
    Ch 5 Intra-Intersubjective Field
    Speaker 1 and speaker 2 are having a conversation
    (view changes)
    12:10 am

Thursday, February 8

  1. page Wolff-Michael Roth edited ... John Dewey and Arthur Bentley, Knowing and the Known (1999) Wolff-Michael Roth and Alfredo Jo…
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    John Dewey and Arthur Bentley, Knowing and the Known (1999)
    Wolff-Michael Roth and Alfredo Jornet, Situated Cognition (2013), link goes to free pdf
    ...
    Psychology (1928)
    Bateson reference is missing from Roth's book (p.5)
    Ch 2 The Thinking Body
    Ch 3 The Mathematics of Mathematics
    Ch 4 Sociogenesis
    Ch 5 Intra-Intersubjective Field
    Speaker 1 and speaker 2 are having a conversation
    Theory A: Independent speakers
    The old way to look at it, perhaps associated with the early Vygotsky:
    We have speaker 1 and speaker 2. The speakers are theorised as independent entities. Each speaker is caught up in their subjectivities so intersubjectivity becomes a problem. To solve the problem we invent sign mediation. The sign, eg. the word, has a physical body and an ideal meaning. It makes the connection between the material and the ideal world, the non physical or metaphysical world. The sign creates the capacity to bridge the gap between the 2 speakers. First we create a gulf between 2 independent speakers, then we create the sign to bridge the gulf we have created.
    Theory B: Common, intersubjective speech field
    A better way to look at it, Roth's interpretation of the late Vygotsky:
    The speakers create with words a common or intersubjective speech field, a semantic field common to the interlocutors. The connection to consciousness, the struggle to achieve sense, occurs in that field. The sign, eg. the word, does not stand between two people but is the reality for two. The sign does not stand between the activity and 'meaning'. It is just a part of the making sense that the speakers embark on.
    Constructivist viewpoint: Mind is constructed from interaction with materials out there in the world, what happens on the inside is explained through interaction with the outside. There are 2 distinct worlds, the mind inside, and the material world outside. The inner world, the mind, somehow creates reference to interpret the outer world.
    Mathematical objects do not exist independently of people but are produced intersubjectively through dialogue and convention. Mathematics becomes a series of intersubjective social constructions.
    In theory A the Self is isolated and intersubjectivity becomes a hard problem.
    In theory B intersubjectivity is not a problem. It becomes a natural part of the joint labour that naturally occurs in tackling a problem.
    eg. Consider the maths problem: How to divide 9 pies amongst 12 individuals? We can focus on the maths of the activity. There is no need to explain how the concepts that emerge in discussion get inside the minds to be retained by the students. Just do the maths, collaboratively.
    Other theories:
    Constructivist: discussed above
    Enactivist / Autopoietic (Maturana): the cognizing organism is considered informational closed
    Behaviourist: the sign is not a mediating link in the behaviourist S-R model (Mikhailov reference, The "Other Within", not clear to me)
    Historical-Philosophical Considerations
    Human essence is societal relations. Societal relations are expressed in language, which is a tool of labour.
    Language is our existing practical consciousness. It originates from our need to relate. Language is the key to consciousness, the historical realisation of Being.
    Any tool of labour, like language, is inconceivable outside a common (intersubjective, not individual) field of purpose, sense, consent, sympathy and action.
    How do we explain difference? Different thinking bodies have different movements and this produces different ideas.
    The word is absolutely impossible for one person but possible for two (Vygotsky quoting Feuerbach)
    When writing or reading private notes in a diary. A form of behaviour that initially involved another person is now directed by a person to the other in itself.
    Even if there is only one person doing a proof there are two in proving. In proving the thinker divides into two: he contradicts himself and is only proven when it has held up to and overcome this juxtaposition.
    What is the difference between Thought and Being?
    Thought: Think you are hold $50 in your hand
    Being: Actually hold $50 in your hand. You can feel it, see it, others can see it, it becomes societal, universal
    Intersubjectivity is being with others.
    We channel our thinking by modifying our material environment. In the old days, when we had handkerchiefs, you might organise to remember something by tying a knot in the handkerchief. More generally, speech is a material thing we have in common. (and today we have mobile phones)
    The Transactional Field
    Reference:
    Felix Mikhailov, The 'Other Within' for the Psychologist (2001)

    (view changes)
    11:55 pm

Monday, February 5

  1. page Wolff-Michael Roth edited ... Spinoza: thought is an attribute of substance (Nature as a whole) rather than the individual m…
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    Spinoza: thought is an attribute of substance (Nature as a whole) rather than the individual mind
    Marx: Thought, consciousness is a societal product
    In an evolutionary sense deeds precede words
    Being, Life determines consciousness
    Vygotsky:
    "The consciousness of sensation and thinking are characterised by different modes of reflecting reality. They are different types of consciousness. Therefore, thinking and speech are the key to understanding the nature of human consciousness. But if 'language is as ancient as consciousness itself', if 'language is consciousness that exists in practice for other people and therefore for myself', when 'the curse of matter, the curse of moving layers of air hangs over consciousness from the beginning', then it is not only the development of thought but the development of consciousness as a whole that is connected to the development of the word. Studies consistently demonstrate that the word plays a central role not in the isolated functions but the whole of consciousness. In consciousness, the word is what - in Feuerbach's words - is absolutely impossible for one person but possible for two. The word is the most direct manifestation of the historical nature of human consciousness"
    What stands out from the Vygotsky quote:
    That words are material, moving layers of air
    Words are social, without others, there can be no words
    Words create consciousness, as a whole
    ... society and societal relations are a condition for the emergence of consciousness in the form of language, which is an integral part of the material part of society, the real process of labour that is orientated to the satisfaction of basic and extended needs .... society is that unit that allows us to understand the individual; and as stated in the Eighth Thesis on Feuerbach, 'all societal life is essentially practical'.
    Labour produces language
    the nature and function of thinking, the intellectual needs, interests, inclinations and feelings of man are grounded in the material life of society
    Some writings (classical social sciences) separate the intellectual from the material aspects of language, intellect is abstracted from the whole
    thinking was divorced from life, from the living motives, interests and inclinations of the thinking person
    the beginnings and ends of the chain of events that determine life are not located within the thinking body but outside it
    Philosophy and psychology are about the whole person, not reason
    Thinking is not a subject for itself but is a predicate of a real person
    Idealism (abstraction) removes thinking from the real person, the real context
    Truth is not theoretical but practical (Second Thesis on Feuerbach)
    repeating from above and adding to it, Vygotsky: it is ridiculous to look for higher psychological functions in the cortex ... they must be explained ... in external terms, on the basis of the fact that man controls the activity of his brain from without through stimuli
    explain the unicorn: Language is common to us, the unicorn exists as a word and image
    Sixth Thesis on Feuerbach: human nature is not an abstraction inherent in the single individual. In its reality it is the ensemble of social relations
    In contrast Feuerbach, arguing against religion, found the essence of man located in the individual, not seeing that the individual belongs to a particular form of society (Sixth and Seventh Thesis)
    Society produces an ensemble of human relations; the ensemble of human relations produces society
    NB. Roth critiques the constructivists and enactivists for making a similar error to Feuerbach, that humans are the results of their own constructions, end products of their actions, bearing the same characteristics of their actions
    Vygotsky: any higher psychological function was first a real, social relation between two concrete human beings ... speech is both a social relation and a psychological means ... all forms of verbal communication between adult and child later become psychological functions
    Georges Politzer conceived of psychology in terms of drama, a richer conception than the world of nature (science) or the world of the mind (psychology)
    (developed wrt to mathematics in Ch 9)
    Drama is neither internal or external, it always has a front and back stage and neither can be understood without the other

    Reference:
    Benedict de Spinoza, The Ethics
    ...
    Hegel Phenomenology of Spirit Part I (1807)
    Lev Vygotsky Concrete Human Psychology (1989)
    Lev Vygotsky Thinking and Speech
    Wolff-Michael Roth Radical Uncertainty in Scientific Discovery Work (2009)
    (I found a Roth paper online with a different title that seems to cover the same ground: Data Generation in the Discovery Sciences–Learning from the Practices in an Advanced Research Laboratory )
    John Dewey and Arthur Bentley, Knowing and the Known (1999)
    Wolff-Michael Roth and Alfredo Jornet, Situated Cognition (2013), link goes to free pdf
    Georges Politzer Critique of the Foundations of Psychology (1928)
    Bateson reference is missing from Roth's book (p.5)
    (view changes)
    4:32 am

Saturday, February 3

  1. page Wolff-Michael Roth edited ... Vygotsky: it is ridiculous to look for higher psychological functions in the cortex ... they m…
    ...
    Vygotsky: it is ridiculous to look for higher psychological functions in the cortex ... they must be explained ... in external terms
    Suchman and Roth are cited for research that exhibits the gap between plans, forms of thoughts and situated material action
    **Comment BK:** IComment BK: I found a
    NB. The notion of teacher's 'scaffolding' students' construction of 'meaning' is challenged
    Comment BK: I found another paper by Roth explaining this in more detail: Re/thinking the Zone of Proximal Development (Symmetrically) He argues that the teacher and student scaffold each other, eg. the student scaffolds the teacher when he reveals what he doesn't know either through a response to a teacher comment / question or through silence at a strategic moment
    ...
    Interactional: two or more autonomous Selves relate to each other, each external to the other
    Transactional: the Selves cannot be specified independently, they are interdependent parts of a whole, each reflecting the whole and, therefore, also the other
    ThereComment BK: There is a
    Thought is an attribute of Nature. Its infinite mind is the infinite intellect, whereas its finite mode is the individual mind.... the individual mind considers the whole partially, one sidedly and thus inadequately
    How do we explain the relationship between thinking and the world?
    ...
    The thinking body has a practical sense, responding quickly in the heat of the situation, without having to stop and reflect. This is because it has been shaped by the world.
    From Vygotsky's Readings of Spinoza
    Vygotsky's monism replaces both dualist and parallelist takes on the mind-body relation. Other approaches end up creating a theory of unity and failed to establish a theory of identity of the psychological and the physical.
    Speech having both a material (phonetic) and ideal (semantic) dimension is the key to the psychophysical (mind-body) problem. We can make an analogy between speech with its sensible-supersensible components and the commodity as analysed by Marx with its sensible exchange value and supersensible use value.
    Vygotsky: "the curse of matter on pure consciousness is moving layers of air, ie. intercourse with the aid of language, rather than a connection to the brain!"
    Speech is not the externalised result of a finished thought but thought becomes itself in speaking.Speech is material, bodily which is different from the semantic, ideal aspects (meanings) that are attributed to words. As speech unfolds, thinking develops so that the mind grasps its thinking only when speaking is finished.
    Vygotsky and the Feuerbach-Marx Connection
    Spinoza: thought is an attribute of substance (Nature as a whole) rather than the individual mind
    Marx: Thought, consciousness is a societal product

    Reference:
    Benedict de Spinoza, The Ethics
    ...
    (I found a Roth paper online with a different title that seems to cover the same ground: Data Generation in the Discovery Sciences–Learning from the Practices in an Advanced Research Laboratory )
    John Dewey and Arthur Bentley, Knowing and the Known (1999)
    ...
    Situated Cognition (2013),(2013), link goes
    Bateson reference is missing from Roth's book (p.5)
    (view changes)
    12:17 am

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